Made this a while back, figured I'd be selling my soul to the demon of insincere fanservice if I didn't post it.
TL;DR: No matter how new/inexperienced you are at drawing/painting/photoshop, I'll always respect you a thousand times more when you post real artwork than when you take the cheap and lazy way out.
Thanks to =jake10684 for the Awesome Stamp Border.
PS. This is not a personal shot at anyone, especially not those on my watchlist. If you're on my watchlist, I watch you because I love your ART. Post more of it and I'll be a happy camper indeed.
PPS. If you're going to post screencaps here, TOS requires you put them in scraps only. FAQ #578: What does deviantART consider to be a proper desktop screenshot?
Now with a plz account so us non-subscribers can use:
And before anyone gets on their high horse saying that it's not the same or similar to photograph. In one part you're right and in another you're absolutely wrong. If we're talking just a quick snapshot press of the button, then you're absolutely right. It's no different than if I were to step outside of my house right now take my digital camera, indiscriminately take a snapshot of the street I live on and then try to b.s. to everyone that it was a nice artistic view of my hometown avenue. All of which can be done in a sum of about 3 or 4 minutes, and even then I'm being a little generous. And yet, it'll still be considered art and photography merely for the fact it's a picture of relatively unbusy avenue from a front lawn with some fall leaves on the ground.
However, if I were to post up something like this or this, which the textures are not vanilla (sweat doesn't exist in the vanilla game), they are high definition 2048x2048 skin and sweat textures done by phenomenal artists (i.e. neither being me), and the customized armor (which you will never find in the vanilla game because they don't exist) of the latter pic were done by others. However the sweat and skin textures (done by two different texture artists (they're modders but I call them artists because their work is as good as much of the professional graphic work I see on a daily basis at work)) originally were not compatible with the lighting textures and ENB that I created, which meant I had to recode each to make them work. All of which takes time--hours in fact to get it just right the way I want it. No differently then when I'm at work working on that shiny new concept ad for an HP printer or monitor at work. But then in the game itself I spent for either of those pictures a solid 2 hours each looking just for the right spot and right shot I wanted. I have about 1200+ hours logged in Skyrim alone, but I've never beaten the damn game (I haven't even genuinely played it for over a year), because I do shit I like just described in it and that's all I do, even after I've sank nearly 200 dollars in the game. While when I was in college as a poor student, I was doing photoshoots with my digital camera to later do PRECISELY what I do in Skyrim these days during my off-time.
The reason I bring up that very last bit is because I read one argument in these comments that screenshots isn't like photography because it's not a natural setting or genuine environment, it's one you paid for. And the first thing popped in my head was, "You mean like a studio?", I lost track of how many times in college in my graphic design courses, we had to alter pics we had taken with our digital cameras, and being poor students that we were we had no money for a studio, nor did we have time (do to other classes and part-time jobs) to go wandering around looking for "perfect shots". So instead what we'd do is make a studio, most when they thinking "studio" it's some rented out room with special props and background canvases. No. We're poor, we didn't have that kind of money. Maybe twenty bucks on us if we're lucky. So with that we'd buy 20 bucks worth of crap to set up a makeshift "studio" in the corner of or dorm rooms or some place outside or even on campus. And then snap an easy 100-1000+ pictures and sift through them to find the one we liked the most for our purpose to alter for class.
The most silly thing I keep seeing in these comments is the delusional belief that it's the environment that makes a picture of a photographer or digital artist artwork. It is not. It's what they do with the environment presented to them that makes the picture artwork, which can be any environment, any place and anywhere.
I can't stand a lot of groups when I watch them and then get flooded with screenshots the next day. I can go take my own screenshot or go to a site where you're supposed to share screenshots if I wanted one!
So this is a nice stamp!
Art takes effort!
*Takes a walk through the Tate Modern*
I'm with GodForsakenBastard on this one. Whilst there are many people who take screenshots that took no effort at all, there are those out there who actually do take their time just like a photographer would in real life. It may be easier because unlike in real life you can pause, but then once again I could bring up digital art and the use of programs like Photoshop. In real life you don't have a undo function, as well as the plethora of other tools, but does that make the picture drawn any less of an art piece? No.
An example of what isn't art? This stamp.
I feel your comparison to photoshop is unfair. Photoshop is a tool which can create 100% original artwork and you cannot create art without effort using it. I suppose you could say that you could download a whole bunch of complicated brushes (which are basically complete images of something) made by other artists and just stamp them on a blank canvas and call it a day, but I would equally decry that as not being art either. The reason a screenshot can never be art is because the artistic value of the image is entirely due to the work of the artists who worked on the game. 99.99% of the artistic merit in a screenshot belongs to those artists, not the person taking it.
I have pictures that I worked on for months in my gallery. The cruel irony of my most commented AND my most favourited deviations both being stamps whacked together in five minutes each is not lost on me at all. That said, stamps have their own category here which is "deviantart related" and not under "digital art" to stop people confusing the two. I don't have to violate copyright law or the terms of service to post them.
If screenshots broke copyright laws they would never allow the function to begin with, nor would many other websites allow said posting of screenshots. Hence why I side with GodForsakenBastard. One can take a screenshot which has had no work done in terms of changing the vanilla content, where as others mod their games to the point of it not even looking like the vanilla product any more. Doing these things ontop of setting up the shot and the time it takes makes them worthy of being art.
What did I miss?
On the subject of "Words in a box", the cruel irony of the fact that my most favourited and most commented submissions to this site are both stamps I banged together in 5 minutes is not lost on me here.
If you can tell me what the aperture size, f-stop, ISO speed and exposure time of a screenshot is, then I might be inclined to believe that screenshots are photography, but not before.
What is a screenshot of a video game or a screenshot of a TV series if not a screenshot of someone else's art? The character in the screenshot was rendered by an artist, animated by an artist and put against a background rendered by more artists. When you post on dA, you ARE claiming it as your own. See the little copyright thing which appears by your name on every picture you submit? Right here.. That is a legally binding claim that you own the copyright to the image. If you do not own that copyright, then you are stealing the hard work of the artist(s) who do own the copyright.
It's like making videos on Youtube. It's underated.
Oh crap yeah, this has been posted in 2009, the video game industry has evolved a lot since :3
That said, to address the comparison to photography, I feel the major difference is that generally, when you take a photograph, you are not taking it in an environment which was entirely put together and created from the ground up by paid, professional artists. Could you truly call a photograph your own work if you were taking photographs of paintings in an art gallery (and had a professional photographer standing next to you adjusting the settings on your camera so that each shot came out perfect)?
And second, I think that screeshot taking in video games is becoming more and more like photography. In games like Rift, you can build "dimensions", which are like houses, and I can absolutly see how you could place different objects to make it look beatiful. I'm sorry, I have to go but I'm gonna make this short. Nowadays, you don't have dull environment in games. I totally agree that taking a screenshot of the sunset in a game, if and only IF it's only that should absolutly not be considered as an art, but since video games are getting more open with more character posibilities and costumization (not only of the character) posibilities, although it is easier than photography, I agree, it's becoming more and more like an art. But again, I agree that taking a screenshot of a pretty environent in a game with no good angle and stuff should absoluty not be considered as an art
Sorry for this messy comment, I'm kinda in a rush
Have a good day! :3
Yeap, realistically, even if all the baddies raging at me were right and screenshots WERE art, it's still against the rules so they're still not allowed to post them. You press "I agree to the TOS" when you create your account, that means you don't post screenshots outside of scraps. It's not an opinion like some of the people posting seem to think that it is, it's a cold hard fact that is backed up by the TOS and the FAQ. It staggers me that people would even try and argue against that.
Desktop screenshots category I think is a hangover from the bad old days. Back when I joined 8 years ago, there was a field on your page which was for a desktop screenshot, but it was separate from your gallery. Was fun for sharing your workspace and your OS, but no-one considered it art. At some point they took it away and rolled desktop screenshots into your gallery. Not the brightest move as far as I'm concerned and far more open to abuse than the amount of benefit it provides.
My point is: Everything can be considered art as long as there are proper amount of effort put into it. But hey, it's a subjective term, doesn't it? A bucket. Feel free to fill it with whatever you want, there is a wide variety of thingsto choose from.
dA rules say that as long as they're in scraps, there's nothing wrong. FAQ #578: What does deviantART consider to be a proper desktop screenshot?
While I understand what you mean, I also disagree to some extent.
I could compare it to photography, which I do a lot of myself. Taking a photo is taking a moment in time, a moment which you may have absolutely no influence over. While games themselves are someone elses work (their art so to speak) I find that some screenshots can be exceptional.
Some games do require setup and skill to capture, and many moments just happen and cannot be duplicated. In that sense, I do think that taking a great screenshot requires effort, absolutely.
I think your elitist attitude is the real problem with DA. Especially considering, no offense, that your own uploads hardly merrit you being this elitist.
There's a lot of people that have tremendous problems taking criticism as well. People upload inferior works then can't take even friendly hints and tips about it without freaking out and going all "DONT JUDGE ME ITS MY ART!"-tantrums.
The only problem I see with screenshots is the amounts of bad ones there'd be. Much like how there's tremendous amounts of really bad "art" right now. So in that sense I understand you.
Screencaps of animé though, that's just rubbish no matter how you look at it.
One could compare screenshots to photography, but only at the low end. Someone starting out in photography with a cameraphone probably isn't putting in much more effort than someone taking a video game screenshot, but with real photography, there is a long way to the top. If you practice, research techniques, spend hours learning post-processing, take thousands of shots, you end up being able to take something like this [link]
There is no such top-end in taking a screenshot in any game that I've encountered as the game sorts out all the technical, under the hood stuff for you. There's no improvement to be shown for someone taking the same screenshot twice.
I'm somewhat curious as to what you mean by "my uploads hardly merit being this elitist", but really though, even if my gallery was filled with bad Sonic porn and sad anime demotivators, that detracts nothing from the validity of my message. I agree entirely with the problem of people not taking criticism, but to me, that problem is made worse by people saying "So what if my anatomy is wrong, yours is no better!" or in this case "You're not a pro, what right have you to complain?"
If, rather than addressing the friendly hint/tip that I'm making, you go and tell me that my artwork is rubbish and ask what right do I have to make such a hint/tip, you are discarding my point based on who I am, not whether the point is valid and you learn nothing.
For the record, if you have any criticism of my other work, feel free to post it. I think that one honest criticism from anyone of any level is worth a thousand "Cool " comments.
In closing, I'm not so fussed about bad art, because (in theory) can be improved into good art with practice and guidance, given that the artist is willing to accept criticism. Screenshots, from my experience, never show any artistic growth. They stay the same as just stolen frames of another artist's work and if you don't consider the bottom tier (ones where the shot is so poorly taken you wonder how the person making it manages to dress themselves), the difference between a middle-ground screenshot and a top-tier one is pretty small.
I was just being sour, sorry about that. I just didn't like what you had written and I was being snide, I apologize.
Depends on what you take screenshots of, to be honest. Maybe one just wants to show off something beautiful in a game or some very unique moment.
So the amount of complete rubbish people already put up really justifies screenshots being allowed, in my opinion. There's so much, like the examples you made, that I absolutely detest, that show no effort, no thought or skill. And often, people aren't open to even the most friendly of criticism.
Earlier, I found some girls page on which she had uploaded nothing but OTHER PEOPLES IMAGES. Not even joking, not a single image seemed to be her own and she had given NO CREDIT ANYWHERE to COPYRIGHTED PICTURES.
When I told her this and informed her that DA isn't meant as an image sharing site but a site to show of what you have done yourself, I was blocked. Here's the image I saw and recognized from another source, and commented on. If you wish to, please report her as well.
I've reported her, hopefully admins will remove all the images and punish her for blatantly stealing peoples stuff.
Those are the kind of people that are a problem on DA. I would welcome screenshots over having people like those
That's fine, no offense taken.
I totally agree that dA is filled with trash which is much worse than screenshots and it's becoming increasingly obvious that the moderation just doesn't care about things like art theft and people posting copyrighted pictures. For a while, I counted how many art theft reports I'd filed for people just reposting crap they found on google, but I stopped counting after I got to 100 reports filed and zero response from the moderators. When I asked what was happening, they told me that because I wasn't the owner of the copyright being infringed (ie. I couldn't personally sue dA), I was "low priority". And then there's always just banning you from reporting: [link]
It has been at least 2-3 years since I filed those 100+ reports and I'm still waiting for the moderators to address even one of them.
That said, I don't think "There are worse things out there" is a good case for why something should be allowed. It'd be worse to be hit with a baseball bat than hit with a ruler, but that doesn't mean it's fine to go hitting people with the ruler.
What I always say to the people who post screenshots and tell me "Oh but I wanted to show what I loved about this game" is "Why not draw it? Why not make it your own?"
They often then tell me "But I'm no good at drawing! It would look bad!"
The short answer there is to practice- and this is where the effort thing comes in. No-one ever says "I'm not going to try taking a screenshot, I'm not good at it." There are heaps of forums and image hosting sites which are excellent for sharing that goofy moment from the last game of Halo you just played, but dA is uniquely suited to helping new artists learn and improve. We have tutorials for everything under the sun and whole communities dedicated to providing critique to beginners. To get the most out of this site, all they need to do is be bold enough to make an attempt and ask for critique. The thing is, that takes a long time, a lot of dedication and a lot of effort which those people aren't usually willing to expend. To me, that is the difference between someone who deserves to call themselves an artist and someone who doesn't.
My opinion is that by accepting and making it normal to take the lazy way out, we swamp the fanart clubs and put off new artists who might otherwise be willing to sit down, try their hand and eventually refine their artwork into something truly amazing.
There's so much bad photography. There's so much bad drawing.
And most of them aren't doing jack to improve themselves. Heck there was a girl I asked about why she posted mostly photo's of her own damned face taken from the same angle, not offensive or anything, and she really freaked out, she completely lost it.
Another case of idiocy was the two people I found who had uploaded OTHER PEOPLES STUFF.
One of them was smart enough to remove them when people started telling her it's against the rules.
The other guy called it "hate mail" to tell him to remove stuff with other peoples NAMES ON THEM.
Two of the images even had active DA members fucking DA ID on them.
I'm under the impression that most people on DA can't take criticism, and most people on DA don't care about improving.
If the people I've mentioned are allowed to excist, then screenshots would be just fine.
There are so many people on DA that aren't even remotely artists and many of the ones who arrogantly call themselves artists don't even remotely deserve to call themselves that.